Initiating a Difficult Conversation with a Colleague
I was wondering if you had any advice if a classroom teacher feels that if a student is misbehaving in the classroom, then they can't come to music as a punishment. I feel those who have academic issues actually thrive in music and I want to make that decision if they can participate or not. How do I approach the classroom teacher about this?
At the risk of being redundant, difficult conversations with colleagues are difficult. Let’s talk about some important steps we might want to take as we gear up for this conversation. We’ll also talk about how the answer to the question is in the question itself, and we’ll look at some extra resources to pursue for more information.
For our conversation here, let’s call this student Parker. We want to get Parker back into music class. Not because Parker doesn’t act out in music class the way they act out in their grade-level classroom. They might, and they might not. That’s not really the point. The point is that music is for everyone. Music is for students who struggle in their grade-level classrooms. Music is for students who don’t handle the traditional education system well. Music is for students who need extra skills to build classroom relationships.
This is something that as music teachers, I know we feel strongly about. And we have very good reasons for this position based on child development, educational psychology, and even educational law.
We also feel respected when our colleagues recognize that we are in the school to teach music. We’re professional educators on equal footing with every other teacher in the school, and we’re all working together for the same mission.
The Same Side of the Table
When we enter this conversation, it’s easy to think that we’re going to go present our argument for our side and our colleague will present their argument for their side, and the most rational argument (ours) will win.
When we do this, the imagery is me on one side of the table, and you on the other side of the table. Do you see the issue? We’re structuring the conversation so it’s me against you. When the student ends up in music class next week, it’s a victory for me and for Arts programs everywhere. If the student isn’t in music class next week, I am defeated and I probably feel a little disrespected and devalued. If the student is in music class, I win. If the student isn’t in music class, I lose.
So let’s move from each of us facing each other from different sides of the table. Let’s get us both on the same side of the table, and together let’s face the actual problem we’re both trying to address together: There’s a student who is having a hard time in class. Neither of us want that for this student. Neither of us want that for this classroom teacher.
So the imagery we’ll use here is both colleagues on one side of the table trying to build a solution so the student is supported. If we were to adjust the question, “how do I approach the classroom teacher,” we might ask instead, “what would it look like to link arms with the classroom teacher?” or “how do the classroom teacher and I approach this problem together?”
I See Where You’re Coming From
This is the work we’ll do before the conversation happens at all. It doesn’t need to take a long time, it’s just a quick action we can take to get ourselves on the same side as our colleague. What does it actually look like to approach the conversation from the same side of the table?
Let’s make a quick list of all the reasons this teacher might have for keeping the student out of music class. Off the top of my head here, I can imagine a teacher who is really overwhelmed. If things were working well in the classroom, the student would be in music class and every day would be sunshine and rainbows. So something isn’t working for the classroom teacher here.
I can imagine this student might have work they need to make up. They might have some tasks to do as punishment like writing sentences or cleaning desks. And this teacher doesn’t want to take away the student’s lunch time. We also probably don’t want this student to stay after school. We can’t have them miss recess. So the specials block seems the least disruptive to everyone.
I Can Imagine
One of the uncomfortable truths about colleague relationships is that while there are certainly times we feel that our toes are being stepped on a bit, we also need to acknowledge the times we’ve intentionally or unintentionally stepped on other people’s toes.
I can think of times when I’ve pulled students out of class for musical rehearsals or for a music trip or a special sharing event. I’ve taken up teachers’ time by asking for help with events.
I’ve also done things that I didn’t even know were bothering my colleagues, like making too much noise during class or hogging the copy machine when I need to make a million copies of programs.
The reason to do this type of work before the conversation is that it gets us in the right frame of mind.
Two Ears, One Mouth
The reality is, when we walk into this conversation, there’s a lot we don’t know.
We have our hypothesis about what the teacher might be going through. So now it’s time to fill in some gaps in the situation.
Let’s call this student Parker. So we knock on this teacher’s door after school, and we’re going to listen to what they have to say. Asking about the situation might sound like:
“How are things going with Parker?”
“We’ve missed Parker in music class. How have things been recently?”
“So how is my friend Parker doing? Any improvement?”
And as this teacher talks, we’re going to listen to what they have to say. Because remember when they describe the problem, we’re on the same team.
When they’ve shared their update - whatever the update is - we’re going to start by repeating back to them what they’ve said.
If they’re continuing to have a lot of friction with this student, we’ll say: Yikes. So Parker is still making a lot of noise in class and taking things from other kids’ desks. Or, Wow, so Parker still isn’t finishing their work, even though you really feel like they can do it.
Something to note here very quickly - when we listen and reflect back to the teacher what they’re saying to us, we’re going to describe the specific actions the student is taking, not the description of their character. When we’re overwhelmed, we can sometimes make accusations about a students’ character. This is very normal - Parker is lazy, Parker is manipulative, Parker is disruptive. Even though that’s understandable, it’s not very helpful. So if we can describe the actions - Parker hasn’t finished their work, Parker told a lie to a friend, Parker is yelling during class - we’re looking at the situation more realistically.
The interesting thing about this is that sometimes just sitting down to listen to a colleague can work wonders, and the situation might resolve itself. Checking in with this teacher, they might talk for a bit and then end with saying Parker will be back in music class next week. And even if that’s not the end of this portion of the conversation, we’re set up well to move forward with the next thing that needs to happen here.
Recruiting Cooperation
So after we make sure our teammate is heard, we’re ready to move onto the next phrase: recruiting cooperation. This is where we make sure we’ve stated explicitly that we’re approaching this conversation from the same side of the table.
This might sound like:
“You and I both want Parker to have successful time at this school, and I view both of us on the same team here.”
“I know we both want Parker to do well, and right now it doesn’t sound like that’s happening. I think it’s going to take a village to support this kid and I want to be on your team to help them.”
The Ask
Up until this point, we’ve spent a lot of time talking about the classroom teacher’s perspective - we’ve empathized with them, we’ve put ourselves in their shoes, we’ve thought about times we’ve inconvenienced them, we’ve listened to them, we’ve reflected their experience back…… And something is still missing: We still want Parker back in music class.
All these steps were important to lay the groundwork for this conversation. And, at the same time we don’t want to hem and haw and dance around the issue and be passive. That’s a pathway toward resentment. So bringing up our perspective might sound like:
“Here’s the thing. Right now Parker is missing out on x music project we’re doing, and I’d really like them to be included. Is there a way we can make that happen?”
It could even be more simple than that!
“I hear you. I’d really like Parker to be in music class with us. How can I help make that work?”
In answer to the original question, “how do I approach the classroom teacher about this,” the how is already spelled out beautifully! I feel those who have academic issues actually thrive in music and I want to make that decision if they can participate or not. We have the ask right there. How do we approach the teacher? We have our script already. Let’s plug it in.
“I’m with you. I’d like Parker to be in music class. I think our students who have academic issues actually thrive in music. I’d also like the curtesy of deciding whether Parker can participate in my class or not. Can we think of another way to redirect Parker’s behavior so they don’t miss my class?”
How can I approach the conversation?
Sometimes I wonder how to approach a conversation, and I’m actually asking a mix of questions:
How can I approach the conversation without feeling nervous?
How can I approach the conversation without feeling angry?
How can I approach the conversation without feeling uncomfortable?
How can I approach the conversation so the other person is guarantied to do what I want?
And the reality is we might have this conversation while we feel angry or nervous or uncomfortable. And the reality of human behavior is there’s not a way to guarantee we’ll get the outcome we’re looking for.
But we can speak honestly and respectfully. We can lead with empathy. We can lead by listening.
There are many possible outcomes to this conversation, but importantly, this is not going to be the only difficult conversation we have with colleagues about our programs. Depending on how this talk goes, we might need another conversation with this colleague about Parker. That’s ok.
Today we’ve talked about some ways to approach this first conversation.
There are a few resources I have found to be helpful here:
Better Than Carrots or Sticks: Restorative Practices for Positive Classroom Management
I’ve talked about this book before in episode 21 on classroom management.
This gives some helpful language around why punishments based in isolation can be harmful, and why a community of positive adults are necessary to reach students who are struggling. I highly recommend it.
Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Tawwab
You may be familiar with Nedra’s work already. I’m not a relationship counselor so I enjoy learning from all the amazing work she does. When I talked about approaching a conversation while feeling nervous or uncomfortable, that’s something I learned from Nedra.
When I talk about approaching this conversation from the same team, that’s something that stuck out to me from a podcast episode by Dr. Becky Kennedy. This is not an episode about colleagues talking to each other to make sure music education is accessible to all learners, but it is an approach I’ve found to be very helpful.
Asking for Help, Talking to Parents, and Having Difficult Conversations - Jessica Grant
Episode 58 of this podcast also hits on some of these challenges. This was a conversation I had with my friend Jessica Grant who is very diplomatic and level-headed about these things.
How do we approach difficult conversations with a colleague?
We remember that we are on the same team, and we’re both looking for ways to reach a student who is having a hard time in class. For our part, we can lead with empathy and imagination. When it’s time to talk we can actually start by listening. And then we can communicate directly and without apologizing. As Jessica Grant said, “hard things are hard” but hopefully this gets us started on the first steps to approach this conversation.
